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Post by nick on Mar 24, 2007 17:32:25 GMT -5
To see a forum gone horribly wrong, go have a read at www.rantinandraven.com , a board based in Iqaluit, Nunavut. Their idea of moderation is to let anybody and everybody say whatever they like, and then completely clear the board and start clean every few weeks. It's usually nothing more than a nasty collection of insults and threats, and most attempts at reasonable discussion are short-lived at best.
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Post by John Zeger on Mar 24, 2007 19:47:27 GMT -5
nothing more than a nasty collection of insults and threats, and most attempts at reasonable discussion are short-lived at best. That sounds like the way the Castanet forum has been on a few occasions.
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Post by Rick Shea on Mar 26, 2007 11:58:33 GMT -5
To see a forum gone horribly wrong, go have a read at www.rantinandraven.com , a board based in Iqaluit, Nunavut. Their idea of moderation is to let anybody and everybody say whatever they like, and then completely clear the board and start clean every few weeks. It's usually nothing more than a nasty collection of insults and threats, and most attempts at reasonable discussion are short-lived at best. So much for the wonderful promises that the Web will promote global discussion and sharing of ideas. Freedom without responsibility is evidently not a good foundation for intelligent discussion.
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Post by nick on Mar 26, 2007 18:22:02 GMT -5
So much for the wonderful promises that the Web will promote global discussion and sharing of ideas. Freedom without responsibility is evidently not a good foundation for intelligent discussion. It might be a little hasty to paint with such wide brush strokes, Rick. There are plenty of boards around where people behave themselves just fine. As the size of membership on any given board rises, so does the chance that the odd 'undesirable' may slip in, it's just that said undesirables tend to be a little more noticeable than others.Castanet is a good example, there aren't more than a handful of members there that need to brush up on their manners, but they make their presence known. Sometimes it's just easier to ignore them than to come right out and challenge them, as they are more often than not just trying to draw others into an argument.
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Post by Rick Shea on Mar 26, 2007 20:32:01 GMT -5
Actually, that's an opinion I've developed after many, many, many, (sigh) years of observation, and I believe that it doesn't just apply to electronic discussions. I've often noted that one of Canada's greatest failings is the lack of a Charter of Responsibilities to accompany the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
My own observation is that the boards where all people behave themselves just fine have some combination of intrinsic and extrinsic responsibility demonstrated, and usually have some specific purpose or goal rather than just a free-for-all.
Come to think of it, those last comments apply equally well to many modern societies as well, as Neil Postman might observe.
So Castanet is as Castanet does, and that's about all I have to say about it.
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Post by John Zeger on Mar 27, 2007 9:18:31 GMT -5
Castanet is a good example, there aren't more than a handful of members there that need to brush up on their manners, but they make their presence known. Sometimes it's just easier to ignore them than to come right out and challenge them, as they are more often than not just trying to draw others into an argument. I agree, Nick, that the majority of posters on Castanet are responsible people. It is, however, this small group of misfits who spoil the forum and tarnish its reputation with their childish antics. I think they should be given the boot, but instead their behaviour is tolerated by the moderator which they interpret as a vindication so their behaviour continues ...
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Post by John Zeger on Mar 27, 2007 12:53:16 GMT -5
Although I didn't specifically mention him, Duane Tresnich of the PaveKelownaOver, er, MoveKelownaForward group felt left out and has included himself in my group of offenders on the Castanet forum in this recent post there:
"I have been sent this screen shot of a posting John Zeger has made on his personal forum and I just wanted to share with all of you this cowardly attack. Here is a man that refuses to accept opposing ideas and will actively try to discredit the person presenting them with insults and innuendos. He has gone as far as to remove valid arguments from his own site as way to control the flow of information to give his, and his followers, statements validity. Then as he tries to present those here on the castanet forum, he finds people will not accept what he says without question, then he will antagonize the other person and then run to the castanet Moderators claiming he is being personally attacked. Now he is calling all of you “rats” and the castanet moderators “weak”. Why? Because he can’t control the flow of information and people here are constantly proving him wrong. SO he resorts to name calling and insults. Well this time, I truly believe he has gone too far. The thought of calling the posters here “rats” has made me angry. As the founder of the group “MoveKelownaForward.com”, I will admit that I have not agreed with some of the comments that have been made, but you would never see me insult someone in an attempt to hide my lack of ability to deal with people. John Zeger’s actions are truly disgusting yet why am I not surprised about this latest episode…"
Here Tresnich is once again distorting the facts, claiming that I was referring to everyone on the Castanet forum, when I clearly was not, in an attempt to get people all riled up. I recall it was Tresnich who some time ago sent an e-mail to the supporters of his group instructing them to disrupt the CRCP discussion forum, and it was that action that got many of them banned and not that they disagreed with us. Matt Phillips, another member of MoveKelownaForward, disrupted our forum for quite some time before he was banned. At one point John Skrotski and Tony D'Andrea of MoveKelownaForward posed as other people on our forum again to disrupt it. While Tresnich may have never directly insulted me, MKF co-founder John Skrotski both insulted and defamed me and he did it on the Castanet forum. However, Tresnich has acted in a less than respectable manner in many other ways such as in constantly trying to make an issue out of how long I have lived in Kelowna in order to distract the public from the real issues. The previous post is vintage Tresnich, a man who has shown his inability to discuss real city issues and who thus has to resort to personal attacks and other underhanded tactics in order to score any points. And where does he have the freedom to do this? Why, the Castanet forum, of course!
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Post by Rick Shea on Mar 27, 2007 14:34:00 GMT -5
Yes, a psychoanalyst would likely have a field day with Tresnich's obsession/infatuation with you, John.
I notice that he has been extremely quiet until you stated that you were leaving, and suddenly he jumped in again without explanation (I'm sure the excuses will follow, as he seems obsessed with reading our forum).
To me, that says an awful lot about his ethics, and personal fortitude -- in other words, he's a pretty typical example of his ilk, and a great example of why I prefer other types of company.
I suppose I should thank Duane as well, because I'm sure that his cross-posting to another forum will only increase the readership here. Thanks for the advertising, Duane!
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Post by John Zeger on Mar 27, 2007 14:39:46 GMT -5
The psychoanalyst would no doubt comment on the timing of Tresnich's latest personal attacks following the recent setback of his group on the Lawson Landing proposal.
All in all, Tresnich has established the MoveKelownaForward group as a group that stands for little more than personal attacks and dirty tricks. That is the extent of his contribution to this city and will stand as his legacy.
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Post by nick on Mar 27, 2007 20:03:52 GMT -5
Careful now, the more energy you put into this the more you will look like "them".
I went through a marriage breakup a few years back. The single best piece of advice that was given to me was "If you can't be around her without getting angry, then don't be around her."
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Post by Rick Shea on Mar 27, 2007 20:40:10 GMT -5
Sure, that's one of the problems with issues like this.
Personally, I don't feel any anger here, just perhaps a bit of pity, certainly a sense of the absurd, and, as I said, gratitude for the publicity.
Apparently, some people are not aware of the old saw that ANY publicity is good publicity (not that I always believe that, mind you).
The second part of that advice is "and if you can't be around someone without laughing uncontrollably, then you probably shouldn't be around that person in that case too." At least, not until one of you changes a bunch.
(personal experience as well. The best advice I received was "let it go where possible and move on.")
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Post by John Zeger on Mar 27, 2007 20:45:24 GMT -5
Careful now, the more energy you put into this the more you will look like "them". Sage advice, Nick. The last thing I want is to look like them or to divert any energy from the betterment of our city.
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Post by John Zeger on Jul 1, 2007 12:54:28 GMT -5
But I would be amiss if I didn't mention Fluffy, a guy who either thinks he's a big cat or is advertising to everyone the material found between his ears. Whenever there is any mention of me on the Castanet forum (also known as the Insults and Personal Attacks forum), this malicious, attention-craving mud-slinger from Penticton who is too cowardly to use his real name and who seems to be obsessed with me is always one of the first to show up to add his worthless two bits.
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Post by John Zeger on Jul 3, 2007 9:49:20 GMT -5
This past weekend (June 29, 2007) one of the Castanet forum ratpack started a thread there about a recent letter to the editor of mine that was published in the Capital News. His accompanying comments contained lies and misinformation about myself (as usual). But interestingly his attempt at getting another hate thread aimed at me going flopped as only four of his cronies joined in this time with a repitition of their well-worn personal attacks. It seems that most of the members of the Castanet forum have wised up to this bunch of losers and are just ignoring them as they should.
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Post by John Zeger on Jul 6, 2007 10:06:57 GMT -5
Another example of the lies and misinformation about myself on the Castanet forum is a post by an anonymous individual calling himself Not Politically Correct where the latter, in his attempt to slander me, attempts to associate me with a local man by the name of Thomsen who protests the justice system from the back of his truck. Not Politically Correct identifies this man as Andy Thomsen, my running mate on the ASK slate in the 2005 civic election. Well, the only thing that these two men have in common is their last name as the Thomsen with the truck is not the same Thomsen who ran for city council. But then Not Politically Correct who should change his forum name to Not Factually Correct couldn't care less about being accurate as all he cares about is slandering me. That is why he and most of my other critics use phony IDs as that way they can slander and defame and avoid lawsuits.
But this attitude of slander people first and then (if they ever bother to at all) get their facts straight is commonplace on the Castanet forum, a forum that has no standards for the conduct of its members or the accuracy of what is said there. Readers of that forum are cautioned to check into everything they read on that forum about me as they are more than likely just reading a pack of lies.
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