housing for high income transients

[John Zeger]

On March 7, 2005 city council gave first reading to an application by Bellasera Land Corp. to amend the OCP to allow for an apartment hotel to be built as part of their Quail Ridge condo development. The OCP presently does not allow for apartment hotels to be built in a residential area. Having passed first reading the application will now go to public hearing. Only Councillors Sharon Shepherd and Ron Cannan dissented. This is yet another example of city council passively allowing developers to dictate the future social structure (or lack thereof) of our city. Not content with turning Kelowna into Condo Canyon, city council is now entertaining turning Kelowna into a welcoming place for high-income transients. What a great way to build community! Please send an e-mail to the mayor and council telling them that you want more affordable family-oriented housing built in Kelowna and not housing for transients.

[prodevelopment]

Wow. I seriously can't believe what I am hearing from johnzeger. I'm hoping you're just joking. "High-income transients"? NOW you're pushing the envelope. So basically you're saying that everyone that lives in Quail Ridge, one of the higher end development areas of Kelowna, are transients?? Why don't you go ahead and do another one of your little surveys in that area to see how people up there feel about being called transients. As a matter of fact, take that same survey downtown and talk to businesses and people downtown since you're comparing transients in Kelowna and are so "anti-development". Since when did you become so versed in human geography (or any socio-economic areas for that matter)? On that note, what exactly ARE your credentials? Reading all your past posts you seem to have a lot to say with nothing to back you up but rhetoric.

[ScratchingMyHead]

Ok, I can't hold my tongue any more - Mr. Zeger you are an interesting person! So you are now against tourism and the dollars it brings into the community? What is next with you?? You must REALLY hate people who have worked hard during their lives and actually made something - don't you?

[John Zeger]

The neighbourhood that this apartment hotel is in has an OCP designation of residential. Residential means just that -- permanent residents not just part-timers. The developer is applying for a change to the OCP to allow for an apartment hotel -- a commercial designation. I am not against hotels, but they should be built where the OCP allows for it and not in a residential neighbourhood. If we make an exception here, we will be setting a precedent allowing for changes everywhere. How do you propose to create community by housing people who only have a part-time committment to our city or do you only care about the revenue that they bring with no consideration for community at all?

[prodevelopment]

That's fine... I can see where you're trying to make a point. You just have to understand that calling people "high income transients" is NO way to get anyone on side with you.

[John Zeger]

I should add that the Advisory Planning Commission voted not to recommend this proposal and that it was also opposed by the Quail Ridge Residents' Association.

[prodevelopment]

John,

I still have this question for you and I would appreciate an answer.

"Since when did you become so versed in human geography (or any socio-economic areas for that matter)? On that note, what exactly ARE your credentials? Reading all your past posts you seem to have a lot to say with nothing to back you up but rhetoric."

Thank you.

[John Zeger]

I'm happy to oblige. I have a B.A. in political science from the State University of New York where I graduated magna cum laude. I also did considerable course work in sociology and economics. I did two years of post graduate work in political psychology at the University of Alberta. My work history includes 11 years on the planning staff of the Edmonton Regional Planning Commission where I was part of the team working on the Edmonton Region Growth Study. I also taught social sciences at the University of Saskatchewan and worked as a social worker. What is your background?

[prodevelopment]

My background needn't be discussed in this forum as this is a section of your site and my interest solely lied on your credentials. But on that note, why did you move from Edmonton? Spending that much time on the planning staff of the Edmonton Regional Planning Commission you'd think that you wouldn't want to leave a city that you spent that much time with. Obviously you must have liked the direction that Edmonton is heading?

[John Zeger]

Now you've hit upon one of my favourite subjects -- Edmonton, the place that the late Mordecai Richler called "a city without a soul." He pretty well summed it up. Edmonton is a city without beauty, character, or sense of community. It began as Fort Edmonton and ever since its establishment the only reason people have been moving there are economic ones. At one time I lived in Regina and when I told friends there I was contemplating moving to Edmonton they told me the only reason people go there is to make money and then leave. I thought they were just being cynical, but they were right. During the oil boom of the 70's many Ontarians moved to Edmonton to find work and as soon as the recession in the East was over they are moved right back to Ontario. You see there is very little reason to like Edmonton unless you are an Oilers fan or love hanging out at West Edmonton Mall. And before I left it was just getting bigger, more crime-ridden and impersonal. But when I moved to beautiful and friendly Kelowna, I quickly learned there were plans to change this wonderful city. The planning department wanted to erect lots of highrises and were allowing developers to have a free reign and instead of assuring the social stability of the city by encouraging family-oriented housing, the planners were allowing it to move towards becoming a city dominated by retirees. Now I have nothing against a good percentage of residents being retirees, but the family has always been the cornerstone of every viable community and it appears to be going the way of the dodo in our city. In other words, there is no social planning whatsoever going on here. Well, I wasn't about to let my dream of living in paradise be destroyed and to let Kelowna become an ugly city with no sense of community, so I got involved. The last thing I wanted was for Kelowna to turn into another Edmonton.

[ScratchingMyHead]

Mr. Zeger say: "My work history includes 11 years on the planning staff of the Edmonton Regional Planning Commission where I was part of the team working on the Edmonton Region Growth Study."

So, please do tell us what great ideas and projects you proposed and implemented in Edmonton? I want to hear all about it - really!

[John Zeger]

As part of the Edmonton Region Growth Study I was involved in looking at numerous consequences of growth for that area. One topic I studied was the impact of increasing urban size and density on social pathologies such as crime, mental illness, alcoholism, etc. Upon doing an extensive literature review I learned that both urban size and density show positive correlations with social pathology but of the two urban density is the most closely related. In other words, a community is more likely to experience various social problems as a result of increasing it's density i.e., the number of people per square kilometer.

[ScratchingMyHead]

So according to your research False Creek and West End in Vancouver must be overflowing with criminals, mentally ill people, and alcoholics since it is one of the most dense areas in Canada. Ok, ya that is true LOL! I think we should alert them to this emergency situation!

[bo916]

my motherand sister live there, i'd better warn them

[Rick Shea]

Given the seriousness of these issues, I certainly hope that you do warn them.

More people need to be aware of these problems, so having you speak out about them would be a good thing indeed.

I just hope that you do your research, so that you have the studies, statistics, and data to back up your claims. John has certainly been kind enough to point us towards them.